EQDiva

This sight for bards show promise...reminiscent of this site in its heyday..but its still early: http://www.vgbards.com/forums/index.php I am posting my initial VG impressions here, for those in EQ1 who didn't want to hear about EQ2, this should work for them as well, since they don't come here and won't hav These are initial impressions, I am only level 10, I have played several different classes to 4 or 5, but the Bard is gonna be my main (my Dog necro is cool, tho). Graphics? Personally I would list best to worst as EQII, VG, EQ1. People with high end machines are loving VG. I have turned the graphics all the way up and its beautiful. I have a high end cable connection, AMD 3500, 2gb ram and ATI x800. It is no match for VG on anything less than balanced and I ususally go hi perfomance or max performance. Quest systems: Pretty neat, they start at your spawn point and spread you out nicely. Some long, some just run over and talk to someone else, and some inbetween. They advance the local story line. Variation between starting areas. Huge. The world is huge. There is a ton of difference between starting out as a human bard in a rural village, a half giant in a camp in the mountains, a wood elf in a tree city (Kelethin on steroids) and a high elf in their elaborate city. Its almost like playing different games. Character variation...pretty good for the first 10 levels, something EQ2 had real trouble developing. The bard. Hmmm. So far I like it. I can solo well. There is some kiting (which i havent really needed much up too level 10). The character is complex and getting more so. You can play this game at a casual level but there are perks for learning the complexity and in all areas there is quite a bit. (chaining attack, composing songs,positioning, factioning..etc etc). The complexity is similar to EQ1 except for the combat mode which is far more complex, to my mind...of course I am older and more dumber, this time around). I really like the song composition thing. Think of it as having multiple uninteruptible twists, and being able to change them on the fly. Melee wise, at least to lvl 10, we aren't dps gods but we sure hold our own. I am faster than a decked out horse my level (at least those i have seen) and that is very good. Mobs are as varied as you could hope for in the first 10 levels. Even content is easy but 1 or 2 levels above you solo content is challenging. Its hard to run away (except for a drum equipped bard) and mobs will chase you a good way. Training, largely gone in EQ2 is back. Crafting? I am trying to keep an open mind, but it is a tad hard and obtuse for my way of thinking. (I screwed up and blew a crafting session because I didn't know to equip bandages before hand? Sheesh. This will take some painful learning as I see it. Some people are loving it. Diplomacy? Hmmm, see crafting, I haven't given it much attention, but again, some people are freakin loving it. You'll either need to learn it or have a friend who has to do some of the more complicated stuff, I understand. The in-game map system? Sucks. I want a good map that appears as I learn the area, not a cheat sheet (EQ2) but something so I don't freakin have to stop and ask directions every time I go there. The terrain is hard to discern, noting in cities is marked to even show you you are in a city. This is the only grad D- (vs an F for no map) I have for VG. The link to quests and the red mark on your compass to help you know general direction for some quest is nice. EQ2 has VG beat hands down, although to my mind, the maps may go too far, like much of EQ2 in dumbing down the game. Never the less, in RL, I could pencil in a better map. Nuff said...some folks didn't want in-game maps at all, and almost got their wish. Oh, crap, I forgot, everyone can cast and move, although they drop to a slow walk during the cast. This is a good thing, to my way of thinking. The weakness chains? Better than EQ2 HO's (ho's had potential but I thing SoE dropped the ball on scaling them). Again, these are reasonably complex and like the EQ2 HO's probably not overly usuable in pick-up groups. Chat system and broker system? Beat hands down by EQ2. All, in all? I am looking forward to getting deeper into VG. I think its a winner, and will develop into something better. It is not for the faint of heart, and lets hope they don't water it down other than clarifying, improving and debugging certain aspects. It is unfortunate it is not for folks whose machines were just adequate for EQ2, but that is progress I guess. Post any questions you have and I'll do my best, or see one of the many good VG boards emerging. I just posted here to give my perspective as and EQ1/2 bard.

Just a couple things to add... The map? Near perfect. EQ1 maps were horrible. I know I didn't emphasize horrible there, but that's because I can't emphasize it enough. The Vanguard map tells you exactly where you are and what's around without making it too obvious. In EQ/EQ2/WoW, you don't even need to look at the main screen to get anywhere, just stare at the map... that won't work in Vanguard, and that's just about right. I've worked Diplomacy up quite a bit and it's a very fun non-combat form of advancement. It gives various factions within the city you're conversing and as your "presence" increases (I won't even try to explain that, but it's like a sub-faction sort of) you unlock more quests and such. If anything makes VG 3rd Gen (which I don't really agree with the term) it's Diplomacy.

Lol, well, I couldn't disagree more on the map. I was real positive on VG at first but its just too darn rough in almost every area for me to enjoy it like I'd hoped. I'll give it more time, but to be honest, I have more fun in EQ2 (and EQ1 for that matter).

Maps are game ruiners for me. I know some people can't live without them. When I'm sent on a quest to run to a new city far away, of course I'm gonna take the easiest way possible, I just prefer that the "easiest way" involves watching the road instead of watching a map. Just personal preference though.

I find that if you crank up your far clip plane setting (I know it's a big fps hit), you can see SO much more of the world, and I rather like actually looking around and getting to know the world around me, rather than staring at a map. So, while the vagueness of the map can be frustrating at times, the fact that the world and the scenery changes in a meaningful way makes navigation by landmarks and player knowledge more viable, and makes the world more immersive overall. Diplomacy is a card game, plain and simple. Once you learn it, it's pretty fun. They've had some rough spots, tweaking the difficulty etc. (They have had the AI so pumped up at some points, that the game WAS actually cheating -- i.e. it knew what cards you had in your strategy, it swapped out cards after the play started... I mean serious cheating, lol.) I wish there was PvP Diplomacy, muwahaha. Crafting is indeed a pain in the butt. I rather like the challenging aspects of it -- the fact that it isn't easy to learn etc. But my greatest concern has turned out to be true: Unless you spend twice as much time crafting vs. adventuring, you can't keep your crafting level ahead enough to actually make stuff for yourself. While it's nice for the 1% of nerds who play a game like this to 100% craft, it's a let down for nearly everyone else who simply wants to equip themselves and their friends as they level up.

If everyone can be an efficient crafter, then crafting becomes meaningless. You can see this clearly in games like WoW where the raw resources to make items cost more than the actual finished product. Crafting, as an integral part of the economy, should not be viable for everyone. As a mini-game? Sure. If everyone's special, then noone is.

I'm not suggesting that it be so easy that it does itself or anything. Just that the time investment should be balanced with adventuring in mind. Here's my example: Vanguard has six crafting classes for adventure gear: Armorer, Weaponsmith, Tailor, Leatherworker, Jeweller, and Carpenter. I should be able to choose ONE of those classes, and spending roughly 50/50 split of my game time, I should be able to equip my adventuring toon with decent gear for my level. I shouldn't be able to make ALL my gear -- that should take six times as long. But whichever class I choose, I should be able to gear myself. And a group of six friends, splitting their time roughly 50/50 between crafting and adventuring should be able to gear each other with all their stuff.

That seems fair... currently I'm finding that to be the case though (at least through the low teens). As an Armor Smith I can skill up and keep myself in Grade A (or occasionally pristine... not sure if there's a difference) gear and level up a little bit faster than I can gain adventuring levels. Now, if I wanted to pause my experience gain and make 6 sets of gear (for myself and some friends), that would take a fair bit longer (as would gathering the resources). As it is I can barely gather enough resources to outfit myself in the course of normal adventuring. I could see the argument for speeding up levelling a little bit, but not too much. As it is the top crafters are outpacing the top adventurers. That aside there are two things that I absolutely love and hope they never change about the crafting system: 1) Class intertwining. As an Artificer you should need a leatherworker to make you leather products you need, you should not be able to make these yourself, etc etc. EQ2 had this right at first then caved. 2) No exp from markettable items. Exp gain comes from task orders almost exclusively. This keeps the economy vibrant and people only sell things that they made specifically to sell. You won't have people making 50 bracers and dumping them on the Exchange at cost (thus destroying the market) just because they needed to skill up. Edit: I stand corrected, adventuring is outpacing crafting slightly, but most likely the high crafters are also mid-level adventurers so their time is split, the reverse is most likely not true.

Well, I would submit that spending 50/50 adventuring/crafting, you end up with better gear buying it from the money you make adventuring rather than crafting. Had you spent the other 50% farming.... I am still giving crafting a go, but the implementation is not something I'd have chosen. At any rate, I am playing Vanguard exclusively at the moment. I still think graphics motion is unacceptably jumpy/laggy. I have not enjoyed full groups because the lag becomes intollerable. Thats on the recommended system at Hi perf with a 4mb cable connection.

At any rate, I am playing Vanguard exclusively at the moment. I still think graphics motion is unacceptably jumpy/laggy.

The graphics in Vangard are underwhelming, imo. My wife started a couple of characters in VG just to see the gameplay. I was surprised at how crappy the character animations, and especially the spell casting are! Just plain retarded looking. And she has a high-end system with all of the graphics turned on. She tried several classes, and went through some newbie quests, and found something seriously lacking in the game - anything new that other games don't do better. It would appear that diplomacy is the only thing in that category. Based on the player response to that, you can bet that Blizzard is eyeballing that system and is considering adding that to WoW. Maybe EQ will too, but that seems less likely because VG and EQ are owned by the same company.

I use "highest performance" with a few key things cranked up, including Far Clip Plane, and a little bit of grass, hehe. And my performance pretty much sucks. Not much I can do with the age of my machine (AGP graphics slot being the biggest hinderance). As for what "grabs" a new player... It's very subjective and hard to pin down, really. For me, and this might sound silly to some folks, but for me it means a LOT that when I look off at a mountain or castle in the distance, it's a REAL PLACE. I'm NOT looking at a pretty backdrop behind an invisible wall (like the very beautiful city of Qeynos in eq2, when viewed from Antonica). I've climbed a few of those mountains "because they were there." I've taken a flying leap off of one or two just to feel the freedom of falling a mile or two and splatting, lol. I also very much like that the game does not artificially separate me from danger based on my level. Sure, there is a logical progression from easy to harder as you move away from civilization. But there isn't the artificial "zone" thing, where they all nicely match what "tier" you are in etc. And I got GRIFFED! I'm happily fighting in what is typically a lvl 10-15ish kind of spot, and a fooking GRIFFON two-shotted me out of nowhere! I felt like I was at Orc1 in EC again! And while I was a little annoyed that I got killed for no apparent reason, I was also delighted. Why? Because the world is actually DANGEROUS! Something like this pretty much NEVER happens in eq2 -- EVER. You know exactly what to expect everywhere you go. So, I got a little preachy here, but that's some of the stuff that makes me like Vanguard. And oh yeah, I'm thoroughly enjoying Diplomacy. They need to make it possible to PvP for wagers and stuff. It would rock.

I know exactly what you mean! I can remember a time in WoW where were were fighting some level 45ish mobs in some zone, when all of the sudden a giant dragon pathed overhead, we saw the shadow, then OMG! RUN! One of us died. Or another similar time when we were in some crater in the jungle fight some human-sized dinosaurs, and this giant T-rex like mob came thumping up from behind us. Again one of us died, but held the big guy off long enough for the other one to make an escape. Great stuff :) I don't see that sort of thing in EQ1 either.. it's all pretty predictable unless you are talking about raid mobs, where things can go bad quickly.

It used to happen in eq1 WAY back in the day. The Griffon in EC would path past the orc camps. Cazel would wander past the orc hyway in Oasis. Of course, those are all places and camps everyone knew back then, when it took a LONG time to get even to level 20, and the game was SO much more than the "endgame".

In other news I saw Lockjaw recently in Vanguard. Well, he's got a different name but he's a giant gator several levels higher and 4 dot difficulty wandering up and down Qa Riverbank which bears a resemblance to Oasis. There really is so much stuff that reminds me of early EQ. The sense of getting lost... The relative lack of information available on the web... The absence of a "race" feel (at least for me). When they finish the game in 4-8 months it really may be great.

Aye, the game has an unfinished feel. Klapton is right as well, there are some views/landscapes/areas that are just beautiful. More than a few. I just don't play where its laggy and enjoy the game much more. I am still playing it, so that says something. Nevertheless, crafting is a grind and succes is more random based than I like. I like the missive system (complete 1/5/10 writs and turn in for a reward...repeatable as long as level appropriate). There is vertical progression (EQ2 missed the boat hear, in my opinion). All the classes I have played have a diversity of things to do. Healers are more interesting than they have been in EQ1/2, to my way of thinking. So are tanks. Bards? Eh, there will probably never be another 1-50 eq1 bard.